Effectively: you must be this dumb to get this job. I dont consider the drop-bang issue a failure and Sigs response was actually above any real need, except to perhaps deflect any easy wins for slime ambulance chasers I get that. The modular SIG P320 is among the most widely-owned handguns on the planet. It has nothing to do with Glock. A fellow kept his DA revolver in the desk. Whether or not the suits have merit. If you want to find the lowest form of life on the planet interview any C.E.O. Sig makes a damn fine weapon and theres nothing wrong with it. But hey, in ruthless, lawless, Capitalvania were life is considered cheap and expendable no one gives a shit, especially the Far Right that screams about abortions and then kills off the children that were not aborted with loaded guns laying around the house. One hell of a conspiracy. My elderly aunt drove her Volvo into a parked car, and the yard behind it, and the house behind that, while she was pressing the brake as hard as she could. Strangely the car kept accelerating, almost as if she were flooring the gas pedal. Anyway there was one good thing to come from those movies, The USS Vengeance. These lawsuits arent about Sig making a defective weapon, theyre about lawyers building a nationwide consensus in civil trial that makes it easier (and more lucrative) to soak gunmakers. Let us look at the history of other consumer products. The second, longer version of the ABC story again included comments from Joshua Harrison, the consultant ABC hired to independently assess the P320. Got a 40 SW P320 SC on my hip now, got one in 9mm within reach, so far neither has decided to trip the sear without my help. So I will just continue to carry Mexican style with my striker fired polymer wonder nine from a company that may or may not be SIG. To be sure, Ive informally asked every other owner of a Serpa holster when I meet them, whether they have ever had an ND because of the holster. My bet would be that someone had a fully loaded gun in a gym bag and a cloth or rag snagged the trigger. So the tally goes against the surrounding area, not against the gun free zone. The cheap seats were $100-$200 and you got to watch Wrath of Khan with Shatner. The Nightline segment includes an interview with Major Peter Villani, an expert (paid) witness for Hilton. Glocks have gone off when people attempted to holster them and after they have holstered them, some times way later after holstering them like the fellow that got into his pickup truck. Inside the gun, a metal piece called the sear should keep the weapon from firing until the trigger is pulled. You arent a gunfighter, either. Sig Sauer's headquarters are located in New Hampshire at Pease International Tradeport. Time will tell if no. Alec Baldwin fatally shot a cinematographer and injured a director with a prop gun on the set of the film "Rust" and the distraught actor repeatedly asked afterwards why he . Golly didnt Sig catch he!! Yes, its reliable, but no more so than most other major brands well known models. At least the Gorilla is still evolving while the Far Right proved to be an evolutionary dead end, one of natures mistakes. I have almost a hatred for Glocks but the one thing that they are is reliable. I have been purchasing and using Sig firearms exclusively for over 40 years. UPDATE:We were just made aware of YouTuber BoomStick Tactical who produced this video the day before our post published. Manual safeties on pistols, hammer and striker fired systems were found necessary as far back as 1900. there is no better. Sigs suck and my Glock is awesome!. First, keep in mind that allegations made in lawsuits are not statements of fact. Aug 25, 2021 pluong91 said: Hello all users that plan on making a P320 Accidental Discharge Threads -We love our P320's and have done the research when these articles and lawsuits came out, we don't need you to tell us, we have done our due diligence. In June, Cambridge police Lt. Thomas Ahern filed suit, accusing Sig Sauer of selling a dangerously defective product after his P320 fired on its own while he was in the department's SWAT team van with six other officers. Withe the P320 Sigs contract was $169.5 million, $103 million cheaper then Glock. Bagnell said he thinks the discharges are due to both design and manufacturing flaws on SIGs part. Hammer guns have a half cock notch for a reason. So are dumb(or arrogant) cops. The weapon had a history of going off unexpectedly when it was dropped at a certain angle. BTW it was HK that made the first polymer gun, Glock actually stole the idea for the G17 from them. Bagnell also represented Virginia Sheriffs Deputy Marcie Vadnais who sued SIG when she said her P320 went off on its own when she was removing the weapon from her belt. Vadnais was featured in the Nightline version of ABCs report. The Government mandated it to be made more safe to use and was. This leads me to conclude that the problem is not the gear but the moron using it. This is what happens when you go with the lowest bidder. COPYRIGHT 2021, THETRUTHABOUTGUNS.COM. Its difficult to believe thats a coincidence. While it seems that I have a preference for battle ships, The Romulans had Warbirds. Theyve gotten tons of contracts because the gun is cheap, cheap, cheap to make. It may be a rotten trigger, but it does highlight the fact it has a much lighter trigger compared to classic semi-autos and revolvers. What exactly did Harrison mean by legal momentum? That isnt clear, but its easy to make an educated guess. The American manufacturer of the new pistols belonging to Canadas special forces claims the soldier wounded in an accidental discharge last fall was using the wrong holster for the weapon. Have you ever put a handgun down with your palm in front of the muzzle? ABCs own hired consultant, who appears to have no dog in these fights, asserted that he could find no reasonable explanation for these claims and that he considers the upgraded P320 pistols safe for sale to law enforcement and the public. If it were a lowered tier manufacturer like a Taurus having allegations made against them, people would run with it without thinking twice. Remember also that with a handful of notable exceptions, modern firearms do not just go off, no matter what is later claimed by those who may be held responsible. The heads up testing was immediately finished the Sig was the winner. This reminds me of when Gretchen Carlson sued Fox News for sexual harassment and she got 20 million dollars. (a) A person commits an offense if the person recklessly discharges a firearm inside the corporate limits of a municipality having a population of 100,000 or more. So park the Cops suck cause they aint gunfighters! bull**it. Sig Sauer P220 Super Match. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. (c) If conduct constituting an offense under this section also constitutes an offense under another . NEWINGTON - A Hillsboro man is suing Newington gunmaker Sig Sauer alleging his Sig P320 pistol fired, without him pulling the trigger, causing a bullet to be discharged into his thigh. Ironic that the trendsetters of yesteryear are trying to tear down the innovator of today because its Not perfected yet! and the Design isnt worked out!. At this point I would have to say that Taurus is a better handgun. That wont last for long, the P320 (M17 AND M18) are already failing in the field. Sound familiar? Watching all these Glock fan boys drool over these lawsuits in their tribal brand-lust is like watching the talking heads on CNN announcing Trump lost the 2020 election. While this incident occurred months ago, this erroneous media report is driven by multiple sources, including our competitors, and coincides with the imminent release of other Canadian military and law enforcement tenders, indicating the timing of its release is an attempt to improperly influence the procurements, the statement said. The moral of all of this is the reason Sig got the military contract was because they were selling guns at close to cost, they underbid Glock by a significant margin. Have you ever noticed that big trouble usually comes in groups of 3. It sounds the same as arguing whether Captain Marvel could beat Superman up in a fist fight its pretty absurd and laughable. Two, the plunger may have a propensity to remain partially raised, or staged, instead of returning fully to its secure position, lessening the energy necessary to move it and thus allowing less effort to do so. He had to be reprimanded by the range officer twice for unsafe handling of his pistol. Again the Far Right Stupidity and hypocrisy is infinite. Fine. Cops are crap with guns, unlike me, a REAL pistolero! Then without any extra effort, the normal trigger pull caused the tab on the drop safety to sheer off. There used to be a problem, which is why Sig fixed it. All those customers who paid $1600 now had a limited function paper weight. What I can say is that article reads like a hit piece on the individuals who may or may not of made mistakes with their firearms from someone who worships at the alter of sig. Just because someone shoots hyper-unrealistic 3 gun competition, subscribes to Recoil magazine and routinely watches their fave rave YouTube cult of personality channel shill for the latest company that paid him off doesnt make them a [emailprotected]$$. He likens it to a bow-and-arrow, pulled taut. So, unlike the Serpa holster debate, Im a believer that there is more going on than meets the eye with the P320 and is exactly why I refrained from buying one, why I still wont own one, and why I steer people away from it. First off, no joke on me. For instance theres Lieutenant Thomas Ahern who was was performing a routine function (test) of his P320 when it fired at him without any force towards the trigger, resulting in the bullet impacting his left thigh.. . With Biden spending outrageous amounts of money, whats 100 million here or there? Anyway my question for $600 would be: Did you have your 3rd wife killed? They didnt see a problem at all and in fact, saw it as an upgrade over Glock. But it also has much worse quality control on the parts in my experience owning and working on both. Rather, it's because those LEO P320 pistols are seeing much more physical action than ones carried by civilians. Its just that with hundreds of millions of firearms in the hands of more than one-third of the countrys population including a lot of cops some number of negligent discharges will inevitably happen. And they think hey have an actual legit lawsuit on their hands? These officers are not gunfighters. His haste to avoid the embarrassment of his gun being seen on the floor turned the incident from a wardrobe malfunction (accidental exposure of a concealed weapon, probably just a reprimand from the OPR) into a negligent discharge (the gun being fired led to him personally getting fired!). There are a few examples, I admitS&Ws M&P from around 2014 were near junk and I wouldnt have bothered to own one as a trotline weight, but apparently S&W had righted that ship since then. Ron, Guess it hasnt dawned on them that: 1. The drop-bang thing only happened at a very narrow event window, it was only once the Internet doom-preachers figured out that narrow window and did it over and over online did it appear to be a thing. Sig adapted and changed the pistol sufficiently to prevent even that issue. I am still waiting for the UPS man (not from the devil but from Sig) I will not hold my breath. He was told to shoot two rounds. And then theres Gunter Walker, a civilian, who says his P320 fired on its ownwhen he placed the weapon down on his nightstand, shooting him through the palm of his left hand.. Charlton, headquartered in Victoria, B.C., for comment on its original story, but neither responded. The P320 pistol is a dog. But Shatner? A lot like carrying a cocked and locked 1911 but with the safety off. The bullet struck a soldier in the leg. They admitted their problem and fixed it. . Posts: 21156 | Registered: November 05, 2003. Wheee!!. 3. It nicely describes what has to happen in a striker-fired P320 for an un-commanded discharge to happen as the plaintiffs have claimed. Such being the case, there very well may BE in inherent design flaw in the gun; We shouldnt just cast the thought aside as being beyond consideration and insist on blaming the problem on operator error.. This guy had been working at the LGS for over a decade and never had an AD or ND, he was the strictest when it came to safety. After watching a friend get killed by a Remington 700 by another friend and the ensuing fallout 31 years ago I decided that I didnt care if the P320 was fixed, it was getting sold. I just separate Shatner the man from Kirk the character, which he plays with Shakespearian operatic perfection. Note that Harrisons comment about these claims possibly being the result of legal momentum were edited out of the longer Nightline version of the report. The weapon was out of battery when it fired.. I used to laugh at his bragging about how skilled he was with a weapon.. Its not credible to claim that people with this amount of training, this amount of skill are all shooting themselves.. Sep 20, 2021 613 571 Idaho. Pity that some of the most common reactions fall into two over simplistic categories: 1. Keep the phrase legal momentum in mind. Hello perpetrators, Lee Paige is clearly the gift that keeps on giving though our buddy Hunter Biden is a close second! Sig started out rough, but a lot of agencies have decided that their modular chassis system is the way of the future. When Villani was asked for his opinion of SIG Sauer, he said, I carry SIGs, I own SIGs, I just dont own a 320nor would I ever. When Scott asked Villani what he found when he took a P320 apart, he said, I thought Wow, they need to do their homework, they need to fix this gun.. It offers the quality and reliability of Sig Sauer, with a tried and true striker system and ingenious features that make it a novel gun. Bagnell is representing a number of the police officers who have filed suits against SIG for un-commanded discharges, but wouldnt disclose the exact number. Look a fanboy. 00:03. You would have to conclude theres a problem with the product, not with the people., In the Nightline version, Bagnell says, Firearms are not subject to federal regulation. Sigs bid was low because they were still pissed after being beat by Beretta in cost. Bagnell told TTAG that he believes the problem with the striker-fired P320 is an inadequate sear/striker connection (he has images he says illustrate this on his website). SIG just cannot seem to make a striker fired pistol that doesnt have issues. While good firearms training and practices among law enforcement officers is certainly the case much of the time, weve seen far too many instances over the years of un-safe or downright dangerous practices by allegedly highly trained individuals to apply that kind of blanket endorsement to all cops or alphabet agency employees. who sells them? Right up front, the use of an ill-fitting/improper-for-the-gun holster instantly negates any idea of an unintended discharge being the fault of the design. Thread starter ut755ln; Start date Oct 19, 2022; Forums. 1:07. Im a Kirk guy, a Shatner Kirk guy. The real tell is that of all the cases, most are cops of some kind. Wont last!. Im reading about a moron who wraps a loaded firearm in a cloth and stuff it in a gym bag, and other dumb behavior that tells me the weapon isnt the problem but the user. Post again when you buy a real gun that you can defend yourself with. , 54 people all shooting themselves. The details are not out yet, but they use Glocks, and I will make a good bet that her trigger finger did the deed. They did, however, note that when they were contacted by ABC, the company pointed out specific circumstances that were subsequently uncovered in the investigations of a number of these incidents. You need to deliberately thumb the Pythons hammer back to get that trigger pull, each and every time. But that's not working in the P320, he said. The military is already shopping for a new sidearm. But now, P320 is the subject. The networks report didnt mention lawsuits filed by LEOs (or anyone else) against other gun makers claiming similar alleged design defects. Especially since they farm it out to the lowest bidder. Everyone remembers the problems the Beretta M9 had, but it got sorted and they went on to serve over 30 years. But as Officer Hilton says, There is no way anything could have gotten into my purseinto the trigger guard and pulled that trigger., This ABC report includes an interview with Joshua Harrison, a firearms expert hired by the network to examine the P320s design and give his opinion of its safety. I dunno if its a case of lowest bidders blues or what. I have no idea. This is this same company that couldnt build their own freaking rifles after multiple attempts (Sig SG550 series) when that rifle had been made in Switzerland for years without issue. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0LUbLu6TqA, Simply put, the P320 is not safe and the lawsuits arent frivolous. People who had problems have been replacing them with Lightning Strike SS ones. The guys at the LGS saw only one broken striker but it confirmed what the manager who had the P320 go off and my thoughts. These lawsuits ARE about SIG making defective weapons. If its not legal momentum, it would have to be some other mechanism of failure.. She claims that her holstered P320 pistol went off while she was carrying it in her purse. To make the striker leg pull off of the sear, you would have to impart a lot of rearward momentum and stop it suddenly. I would rather play handball with the Devil himself because if you deal with the Devil he will tell you that you agreed to lose your soul for a big box full of millions in cash. Then when the gun still wouldnt operate right, field stripped it and cleared the debris, but didnt understand the gun enough to realize it was now super broken. Their visceral hatred for that which they see as competition to their little golden calf god and their blind, myopic, childish self-identification with an external dynamic is hilarious! Im not even sure I would do that with my 92 or something else that can be both decocked and locked. I went to an outdoor public range with a local SWAT entry team leader. The guide rod is cheap and breaks, it has rotten front sights! converted to the Glock denomination, but are now screaming that the P320 is Too new, not worked out! Were not the only ones who have noticed the lawsuits. I wouldnt be surprised if she did it intentionally, she clearly suffers from a serious case of media whoring. Zero in the affirmative. Hes talking about trial lawyers recruiting clients whove experienced negligent discharges with P320s and suing the gun manufacturer. The list is long proving gun manufactures were well aware of this problem now for 121 years yet they abandoned this when the Glock infested the gun market. -You plan on getting rid of your P320, great! Before the madness SIGS were expensive. A few Warbirds decloaking would make me very nervous if it wasnt sci-fi fantasy. It upgraded its P320 pistols in October 2018, before the middle school incident, spokeswoman Amanda. What a wonderful parody of a MAC cultist! The SIG P320, which has been manufactured since 2014, is known to go off without the trigger being pulled if it's dropped and lands on the ground at a certain angle. For the moron Neanderthals of the Far Right who will scream its the operators fault and we do not give a shit about marketing more safer designed weapons, if such idiotic polices were followed for other consumer goods today we would not have safety glass, anti-lock breaks, back up safeties, child proof medicine caps and chemical bottles, back up cameras, kick back muzzles on chain saws and the list goes on and on. The lawsuit, filed Wednesday on behalf of . Sigs are crap! Bineau added the review is looking at so-called ancillary equipment (meaning the holster and other items) as one element of that broader investigation. I agree. How many times does a pistol have to malfunction before you blame it? The claimed mode of failure was that the tab on the drop safety that interferes with the striker movement had been sheered off and stopped being a drop safety. The sheriff's office said its investigation found no mechanical problems with its deputy's gun. Oh, if you another thread reader asking Wheres the Sig/Glock bashing? Liberal, Conservative. . Theyve also been adopted as duty guns by law enforcement agencies across the country. Even if it was an issue with the sear interface, there is still a firing pin safety that will not move unless the trigger is held firmly to the rear. The SIG P320 has been the subject of numerous lawsuits, including one class action case, in the U.S. over injuries sustained because of accidental discharges. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-ZZ6pynGLM One of the officers a few years ago was carrying his P320 in a P226 holster that he took a Dremel to make the P320 fit. Some of the plaintiffs claim the pistol can fire without the trigger even being touched. Depending on who you talk to you will get many different answers. Its just dumb enough to sound like the plot to a damned Disney film. Excellent work. 19 Feb 2021 Military.com | By Matthew Cox A former U.S. Marine and federal agent has filed a $10 million lawsuit against Sig Sauer Inc. alleging that his holstered Sig P320 -- a pistol. Trust a P365 with your life. But it hardly indicts the P320 as a badly engineered weapon or that its worse than another brand. As for the Serpa holster, this is a bunch of internet echo chamber BS that originated with Obama-era federal agencies putting a bad light on a good product in order to sway public opinion and thus damage the manufacturers bottom line. Sounds like these officers and others are attempting to cover their posteriors. I sold that pistol when I got it back. Instead we see a Sig that is ran by Mr. Cohen of Kimber fame have repeated quality and product development failures. And have the dropping 320 go off? Hilton's $15 million lawsuit said, "there have been 54 reported uncommanded discharges of the P320," meaning the gun went off by itself, over the last five years in 22 states and Washington, D.C. The Collette suit, for example, lists 39 such discharges, all but five of which involved law enforcement officers. So I give a ton of credit to Shatner for reading the reality of what it was and in essence, saving it. Glock is being sued too, because once loaded and a round is chambered, it also has a much lighter trigger than a DA/SA. Ill go so far as to say the first batch of Sig P320s did nothing wrong. Combine this with the complacency that comes with handling a firearm over-and-over again as you holster and unholster a firearm throughout the day, its not surprising that many of these officers are saying it just went off as a negligent discharge can cost them their job if it lead to serious injury or property damage. Everyone knows Glocks are the absolute pinnacle of perfection and have never had one single defect ever! I wish nothing bad on anyone carrying regardless of brand. The military is much smarter and no, the gun is not junk. It was one of the first ones and was sent back as a voluntary upgrade. Again, these are examples the plaintiff in this case is using to support his claim that the P320 is prone to un-commanded discharges.. He quickly too quickly tried to pick up the gun from the floor before anyone could see it, and in his haste, he picked it up with his finger on the trigger and accidentally fired the gun. In this version, Bridge City Officer Brittany Hilton tells her story of what she says happened when her P320 discharged as she was carrying it in her purse in what appears to be a SERPA holster (which has had its own problems, but thats another story). Notify me of follow-up comments by email. Then after just three years without telling anyone they stopped all production including extra parts. He would have been booted after the first time, but being a cop comes with some special privileges. The problem is non-existent. Police Department, was wounded when his P320 duty gun discharged without a trigger pull while he was carrying it in a gym bag wrapped carefully with a cloth. Officer Collette was wounded in his left leg. I dont own a P320. I can say one thing for sure, the X on the side of the my is about is welcoming to me as grip zone was. Hey, Im sitting here staring at my P320, waiting for it to go bang! Mechanical engagement of sear to striker not deep enough (wanted lighter, smoother trigger pull without giving it any hand workmanship required with the deep notch much safer classic systems made since 1900) Result another big fail. It seems safe to assume that while SIG is coming up fast on the outside, GLOCK is still most likely the reigning champ in terms of the firearms most often carried by law enforcement and other government agencies. 01:10. As a result, the P320s were withdrawn from service, leaving the JTF-2 with their older P226s. They cant even make claim to doing a twice a year qual. In fact, I dont own ANY striker fired polymer pistol. Theyre cheering for a noose around their own precious Glocks throat. Result: Sig P320 goes off when dropped and shoots people. Dude, your story is THREE years old. SIG Sauer, a German weapons maker with its U.S. headquarters in Newington, N.H., issued a statement Friday in response to a CBC News report earlier this week that revealed the Nov. 5, 2020, incident and the fact the weapon, the SIG P320, had been withdrawn from service while the military conducts an investigation. According to Section 22.05 of the Texas Penal Code, engaging in deadly conduct with a firearm is considered a felony of the third degree. Hilton has filed a $15 million lawsuit alleging the P320 has a serious design and manufacturing flaw. The pistol is popular with commercial gun owners and law enforcement south of the border. Who function tests their firearm 1) with a round in the chamber, and 2) when its pointed at an extremity? So if, say, a person was to accidentally get shot through no fault of their own and need to sue, which specific cartridge/appendage combo would yield the most favorable least pain/permanent-damage : highest-payout ratio? Sig Sauer's P320 is widely used by police departments across the country, and is a big seller in the civilian market, with about half a million sold nationwide. ), and the gun fell out of his pocket. Then Weve got to go 9mm Nato. And hasnt been nothing but looking for the holy grail since. They wouldnt have adopted it if was. Wow new finger grooves, crazy innovation. And on the flip side of the coin is the decades of denial by Remington on the 700 which Ive seen firsthand. With the 320, the striker is in full-cock position, and held there through the operation of the trigger sear and the positive striker-blocking safety. The company didnt want to comment on any specific pending litigation for obvious reasons. Remember the stupidity of the far right is infinite and the blind greed of the gun makers prove they could not care less about human life and suffering. Now when you lose your grip on lawn mowers or snow blowers they will not keep travelling foreword all by themselves. They have similar vertical sear engagement, but the M&P has more engagement width wise. PDs are dropping them from contracts. And they would not have done that for no reason at all. Once investigated a shot fired into a roll top desk. In 1982 the G17 hit the market and in 1983 they gave 30,000 pistols to the Austrian military at cost. If it were the guns, there would be thousands of cases involving citizensbut there arent. Nope. Which in and of itself is user error / misuse. The linkage isnt, but the way the striker leg and sear face mate up, the two materials being MIM castings, the small camming action, etc. Thinking its okay to wrap a loaded gun in a towel and toss it into a gym bag is what we get when departments refuse to hire candidates who score too high on IQ tests. Who knows. Plastic crap! how do I get one for my P320? Sig P320 Accidental Discharge 2021 Perhaps nothing speaks more clearly to the need for a total recall than the fact that in 2021, over four years after Sig Sauer offered its voluntary upgrade, people are still suffering injuries and lawsuits continue to be filed. You did get to sit and watch it with him, which leads to a serious question. Personally they should have gone with the Glock, its not for me but is a proven gun. Slowly people are realizing they arent the only ones having issues. Picard if Im limited to NCC-1701. in Capitalvania. When a consumer product is likely to be operated in such a way that it causes accidents because it is way too easy to make a serious mistake because of human error when operating it the manufactures are told that the machine must be made safer. Sig Sauer P320 (Christine Peterson/TNS) February 22, 2021 Ryan Morgan Gunmaker Sig Sauer is facing a new lawsuit from a U.S. federal agent who claims his holstered P320 pistol discharged without him pulling the trigger and struck him in his upper right hip. Cars have so many electronics these days, who knows what could have gone wrong! Google Keith Slatowski, is he lying also? The design was incorporated from Bruce Grays trigger kit around the time of the original drop safety fix. Profits over reliability and you end up with junk. People who know how to handle guns prudently and safely. Dont quote the four rules of safety in your article when all the hotness in the gun world is appendix carry pointing something at an extremity and the photos you use showing front slide serrationsputting your hands fingers near the business end of the barrel, because press checks from the front is the way all the cool operator guys do it. Hey, Im glad theres somethings we agree on! 3 disaster is true and if it is Sig will go all out to cover it up if it was.